tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post7488179891923448955..comments2024-02-06T10:02:20.731-06:00Comments on EVTV.ME: Moore from the Land of Harsh 12v busses and Itty Bitty BatteriesJack Rickardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-45272107365511376422011-10-26T01:51:50.156-05:002011-10-26T01:51:50.156-05:00Hello Jack,
One gentleman wrote a little while bac...Hello Jack,<br />One gentleman wrote a little while back about encoded remote key switching you can fit into a car. I saw the site and thought it was extremely expensive for what it was.<br /><br />Someone handed me this link:<br />http://www.suntekstore.co.uk/12v-fixed-encoding-remote-switch-control.html<br /><br />Two 10A relays on 12V from two buttons. At a horrendous price of $8.64 +postage to the US(?).<br /><br />Might buy their 100 off packets of 5mm, 15,000Mcd LED's to have a go making up my proposed 72V headlight circuit. Considering they drop 3.3V per LED.Andyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910687437796998340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-91158645592901296542011-10-25T15:03:41.200-05:002011-10-25T15:03:41.200-05:00Forgot to mention that the cells was discharged wi...Forgot to mention that the cells was discharged with 30A until they reached 2.8V<br /><br />Martin.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352996636675630852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-36539417602460230192011-10-25T15:02:06.849-05:002011-10-25T15:02:06.849-05:00Discharge data for the cells from the work bench (...Discharge data for the cells from the work bench (1+ year at full charge):<br />F18315 July 2010: Initial 92.4 Ah<br /> October 2011: 87.2 Ah<br />F20478 July 2010: Initial 101.6 Ah<br /> October 2011: 94.5 Ah<br /><br />Discharge data for the cells from the car:<br />F18333 July 2010: Initial 93.8 Ah<br /> October 2011 1'st run: 90.7 Ah<br /> 2'nd run: 90.4 Ah<br />F20474 July 2010: Initial 100.2 Ah<br /> October 2011 1'st run: 94.7 Ah<br /> 2'nd run: 94.5 Ah<br /><br />In all cases the cells was charged with 30A until the cell voltages was 4.0V and the held at 4.0V until the current was 4.5A. So not quite 0.3C or 0.05C, but close and same conditions in all three cases. I used the same procedure in order not to change to many parameters. I am not quite sure if I should use nominal or real capacity, but I do not think it matters that much as long as I am using the same procedure each time.<br /><br />Martin.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352996636675630852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-80734010235226688262011-10-25T06:50:08.605-05:002011-10-25T06:50:08.605-05:00I know - voltages and currents has been triple che...I know - voltages and currents has been triple checked with other calibrated and different equipment - they agreed with in 0.5%. That should be good enough for government work ;-)<br /><br />But the second of the four cells are discharging as I write this.<br /><br />Martin.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352996636675630852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-33503280642410258682011-10-25T06:38:53.258-05:002011-10-25T06:38:53.258-05:00This happens to me a lot. Using your calibrated e...This happens to me a lot. Using your calibrated equipment, you know that it SHOULD NOT introduce any significant errors. When you get a different result, it is interesting to try to explain why. After awhile, it will dawn on you that the expected result is not always the one you get.<br /><br />I think the heart of learning about these cells is learning to look at the meter and read what's there instead of what you expect to be there. It has got me over and over again.<br /><br />Jack RickardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-27706789046316262812011-10-25T02:39:31.886-05:002011-10-25T02:39:31.886-05:00"Do a full charge/discharge on the same cell ..."Do a full charge/discharge on the same cell that you saw the 5Ah decrease on."<br />I saw the same approx. 5Ah drop on all four cells (two from the bench top and two from the car). Since I buddy paired the cells I have one from each batch in each pair. The two on the bench top was not paired, but the two from the car was tie together during use, but not during measurement.<br /><br />The charge/discharge capacity is very close on three of the four cells but the last of them has a 2Ah difference when I compare the charge/discharge capacity - I will measure that one again. This single cell also shows a larger dip in capacity. It is the high capacity one of the buddy pair from the car.<br /><br />I am using calibrated equipment, but manual set currents and voltage levels, they are however so close so that should not (tm) introduce any significant errors. But when I am done, I will put the data sets on my web site.<br /><br />Martin.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352996636675630852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-80166541025111273672011-10-24T09:50:09.970-05:002011-10-24T09:50:09.970-05:00Interesting. These are hard measurements to get. ...Interesting. These are hard measurements to get. I'll offer this. Do a full charge/discharge on the same cell that you saw the 5Ah decrease on. Actually either one.<br /><br />I have found it very difficult to get the same number twice. And it usually gets BETTER not worse.<br /><br />Use exactly the same voltage and current levels and see what happens.<br /><br />Jack RickardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-35027668450503215882011-10-24T09:20:10.316-05:002011-10-24T09:20:10.316-05:00Hi Jack.
I have been measuring self-discharge or ...Hi Jack.<br /><br />I have been measuring self-discharge or lack of same on my TS90AHA. I could add about 1Ah to two cells I had sitting fully charged on the bench top for a year. This translates to about 0% self-discharge in my book and are confirming your numbers.<br />I did a full discharge/charge cycle and could see a 5Ah permanent capacity decrease. Did you check the capacity on your old cells?<br />I then took two cells from my car, which had been doing 7000 miles in all weather (-15 degr. C - 25 degr. C) on my more or less daily commute which take the battery to 60% charge twice a day.<br />I could measure about the same 5Ah decrease in capacity - so from the numbers, I could not tell whether the cells had been sitting on a bench top or in the car.<br /><br />Martin.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352996636675630852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-32708627166386837482011-10-21T21:34:15.920-05:002011-10-21T21:34:15.920-05:00Gizmo:
You're probably right. But usually i...Gizmo:<br /><br />You're probably right. But usually if the hot and sour soup is no good, the szechuan chicken isn't going to be any better. I was frustrated with the device after about 45 minutes and just tossed it saide. So many toys. So little time.<br /><br />Escape Velocity. The Panasonics are high energy, but low power. They dance around it in the specs and descriptions, but it implies a 1C output. Maybe one reference to 1.5C in a chart somewhere.<br /><br />Not very encouraging. <br /><br />You can have density, power, or availability. Pick any two.<br /><br />Jack RIckardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-65077919530522105972011-10-21T18:47:10.251-05:002011-10-21T18:47:10.251-05:00Do you have any information on how many watts thes...Do you have any information on how many watts these new Panasonic cells can sustain? Energy density is only half the story in an automotive application, we also need to know the power density.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-32492177863580555802011-10-21T18:30:29.263-05:002011-10-21T18:30:29.263-05:00I'm aware of the debounce technique. I do not ...I'm aware of the debounce technique. I do not know what, if any, debounce delay is programmed in but it is possible that with the poor button that the bounce time was longer than the debounce delay. In any case, one mistake doesn't make everything else done bad or poor. Since a button change fixed the problem and I've had no other problems with the unit maybe the delay just isn't long enough.<br /><br />@Andy: thanks for the links.Gizmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03556169075856492902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-18139560210620395892011-10-21T13:52:00.805-05:002011-10-21T13:52:00.805-05:00Jack, if you are taking the plunge. I hope this wi...Jack, if you are taking the plunge. I hope this will be of interest for you.<br /><br />Some Cycle Analyst clocks as an iphone/ipad app.<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTxl-Iu761s<br /><br />His Source code:<br />https://github.com/frankus/CADashboardAndyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910687437796998340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-54261080308030391962011-10-21T01:27:44.421-05:002011-10-21T01:27:44.421-05:00David:
I wasn't complaining about the quality...David:<br /><br />I wasn't complaining about the quality of his buttons. With micro controllers, you can easily wire up a button as a digital input. But when you see a change, you must make SOFTWARE provisions to blank out any further inputs from that button for some tiny period of time to keep from getting multiple inputs from a single button press. This is because my fat thumb doesn't operate well at the millisecond level.<br /><br />This programming technique is called DEBOUNCE and it is very basic to micro controller software design. If he doesn't know how to do that, how good is the rest of the software likely to be?<br /><br />JackJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-15857988759239270392011-10-21T00:37:39.881-05:002011-10-21T00:37:39.881-05:00Jack,
The button which came with my CA wasn't...Jack,<br /><br />The button which came with my CA wasn't very good and Justin, the designer builder, said it was just to get going any way and recommended I get the button style I wanted to match my install. I just picked up a couple of buttons from Radio Shack and they worked just find and I haven't had any issue with button bounce. Mine is version 2.2. IIRC, the most recent one is 2.3 and comes in its own case rather than a bare board with display. It was really easy to calibrate the shunt, voltage, wheel size, etc. It definitely is simpler if both buttons are installed as no power cycling is needed to get into the setup mode.<br /><br />David D. NelsonGizmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03556169075856492902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-9951168905142891512011-10-20T12:47:47.170-05:002011-10-20T12:47:47.170-05:00Giz seems to be happy with his. Maybe a simple upd...Giz seems to be happy with his. Maybe a simple update will clear?<br /><br />I was fired up, all set to grab a copy of flash to make a pretty set of analogue clocks but they don't do it for Linux. Grrr!<br /><br />Promise, will be all ears and eyes, meooww.Andyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910687437796998340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-27515636553564814862011-10-20T08:54:20.947-05:002011-10-20T08:54:20.947-05:00I bought a Cycle Analyst a year ago. I was seriou...I bought a Cycle Analyst a year ago. I was seriously annoyed with it. I had trouble actually getting it calibrated and it would not measure at different amp levels consistently. Worse, the guy didn't deb ounce the keys and so it was very frustrating to setup. <br /><br />I guess I think someone writing software for such a thing that hasn't mastered a very basic such as button deb ounce probably isn't doing anything good for me. I laid it aside and we've never mentioned it on the show.<br /><br />On your recommendation, we'll try to acquire the latest version and try again. Things get better over time.<br /><br />Jack RIckardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-88058364085847362732011-10-20T08:51:54.059-05:002011-10-20T08:51:54.059-05:00I am basically planning on doing a coast down test...I am basically planning on doing a coast down test on the eCobra and probably all of them before it is over. I don't know that we'll take hit as far as computing rolling resistance vs aerodynamic drag using the classic formula. That gets to be a little more complicated than quite covered by your friend in the instruct able. <br /><br />But we should be able to produce the curve and perhaps some figure of merit representing it that would give us a way to compare one car to another and be able to detect the effect of improvements in a somewhat more facile way than the Soap Box Derby. The problem of course is finding a truly flat area of that length, with no traffic, and no wind. But I'm looking actually. <br /><br />But I agree a coast down test from above 70 down to zero would be much more exhaustive. And we're looking at it.<br /><br />Jack RickardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-91079801511307162942011-10-19T23:51:20.204-05:002011-10-19T23:51:20.204-05:00Hi Jack,
Do you think there is any merit in doing...Hi Jack,<br /><br />Do you think there is any merit in doing a roll down test?<br /><br />The following instructable and associated comments should be able to give you a breakdown of the energy required to roll and energy required to overcome drag for your cars.<br /><br />I like one of the comments suggestions in using a camera and a graphics app to determine frontal area.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />David.<br /><br />www.instructables.com/id/Measure-the-drag-coefficient-of-your-car/<br />ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/calculating-rolling-resistance-62.htmldrgrievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11917168196084636868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-62641816211060831202011-10-19T06:20:24.585-05:002011-10-19T06:20:24.585-05:00oops! Sorry. Late out of bed....
I'd like 110...oops! Sorry. Late out of bed....<br /><br />I'd like 1100 of those cells in 50 tubes of 1.43metres thank you. Or maybe double that. People would be asking where is the battery pack...Andyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910687437796998340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-59571724942274346932011-10-19T06:12:38.290-05:002011-10-19T06:12:38.290-05:00John,
The aux batt was removed as a very bad idea....John,<br />The aux batt was removed as a very bad idea. It's now hopefully fixed and you can find it here:<br /><br />news1014011-1280.mov<br />4 minutes in for 20 minutes.Andyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910687437796998340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-39357901334088273202011-10-19T05:43:10.705-05:002011-10-19T05:43:10.705-05:00The aux battery is history.
The Panasonic batte...The aux battery is history. <br /><br />The Panasonic battery is a demonstration of what is coming in batteries. Winston Chung is now alluding to a much stronger battery as well.<br /><br />I think we're entering a good period for batteries. The cells you all have bought at very high prices has provided a bit of oxygen in the room for battery advances. <br /><br />Jack RickardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-41819583301264036482011-10-19T01:21:18.615-05:002011-10-19T01:21:18.615-05:00Hi Jack,
Congratulations for solving the controll...Hi Jack,<br /><br />Congratulations for solving the controller error problem. So, are you throwing out the aux battery?<br />The panasonic battery is indeed a very exciting prospect.<br /><br />johnmjohnmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01763625312015285723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-68796669437616739182011-10-18T19:47:59.316-05:002011-10-18T19:47:59.316-05:00"Why I mentioned the Cycle analyst, is simply..."Why I mentioned the Cycle analyst, is simply because it does not require a constant DC source to remember all its settings and it works off a very large voltage range of 10~150V or 20~350V." <br /><br />Which also means it doesn't put an imbalance on the pack! It has a small capacitor such that when the power is cut off to it there is just enough energy for the unit to store the current settings in nonvolatile RAM before powering down. I've wondered why the ZEVA II doesn't do something similar.<br /><br />Also, support is awesome!Gizmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03556169075856492902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-53591267041319652552011-10-18T15:16:45.452-05:002011-10-18T15:16:45.452-05:00Dan,
More often than not. Electronics tend to expe...Dan,<br />More often than not. Electronics tend to experience more failures when mechanically switched on and off.<br />====================================<br />Thanks Giz,<br />Just read your blog.<br />Why I mentioned the Cycle analyst, is simply because it does not require a constant DC source to remember all its settings and it works off a very large voltage range of 10~150V or 20~350V.<br /><br />I was taken aback how handy and complete this device is and at such a reasonable price. A pity it doesn't drive posh analogue clocks.Andyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910687437796998340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-57089265979647033812011-10-18T11:05:40.646-05:002011-10-18T11:05:40.646-05:00to me always-on parasitic loads are not acceptable...to me always-on parasitic loads are not acceptable unless they are actually necessary. in this case I don't think any of them are. <br />I would simply add a momentary button to supply the J1772 board so it can begin charging and for the duraction of the charging switch on the DCDC to supply the j1772 board and the Ah counter.<br />running the DCDC 24/7 seems like a failure source to me as it ages maybe 50 times faster than otherwise.Dan Frederiksenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00506872737104553923noreply@blogger.com