tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post3407291888275000755..comments2024-02-06T10:02:20.731-06:00Comments on EVTV.ME: The Struggle ContinuesJack Rickardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-6490450058746333172012-05-16T02:02:26.839-05:002012-05-16T02:02:26.839-05:00Pneumatic Actuators
Dilution Valve for Paper Indu...Pneumatic Actuators<br /><br />Dilution Valve for Paper Industry | Sluice / Gate Valve with Pneumatic, Hydraulic and Electrical Actuators | Industrial Plastic Butterfly Ball Valves with Pneumatic and Electrical Actuators | Flush Bottom Valves with Pneumatic and Electrical Actuators | Plug Valve with Pneumatic and Electrical Actuators<br /><br />For more details visit :- http://www.sudeengg.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=432&Itemid=427Sudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16019162777808452874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-48212890760103378152012-02-21T22:45:04.351-06:002012-02-21T22:45:04.351-06:00You know just when to set the hook every time, don...You know just when to set the hook every time, don't cha Jack? Haha, love it!<br /><br />Jim HolifieldJames A. Holifieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180031495189830484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-73406432082843943212012-02-21T22:26:47.841-06:002012-02-21T22:26:47.841-06:00Not really straightening anything Jim. We're...Not really straightening anything Jim. We're all learning here. These cells are new. I can tell you that ASIDE from the mechanicals of putting them together, I have had some cell losses along the way unexplained. I continue to charge and discharge some, and things are not really getting any better. Some very bizarre anomalies and I struggle to duplicate anything twice in a row. So I'm constantly second guessing procedure, test equipment and cells. These are of course a very different SIZE in capacity than I'm accustomed to testing and dealing with . But strangeness continues and I'm starting to wonder if we haven't started down a garden path that will waste time and resource without good outcome.<br /><br />On the physical end of the modularizing it, we just have to continue to try things. So far, my latest connectors work well and I like the 12volt motif in cast resin. Kind of pricey. A little heavy. But durable and doable still having access to ALL cell terminals.<br /><br />Runs cool. Even under current. Not bad. <br /><br />Working on supra sekert FLATENUM SERIES module now. Hope to have something to show next episode.<br /><br />DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL. We'll back in a minute with MORE UNDERDOG adventures...<br /><br />JackJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-1673874451801822712012-02-21T22:03:40.116-06:002012-02-21T22:03:40.116-06:00Ah, I see. I missed the point of that issue being ...Ah, I see. I missed the point of that issue being the Kokam cells. Interesting comments about the heat control of the A123's. Thanks for straitening me out on it Jack. <br /><br />Jim HolifieldJames A. Holifieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180031495189830484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-39060417044883441392012-02-21T21:07:18.353-06:002012-02-21T21:07:18.353-06:00A lot of swing thoughts going on there Jim. The o...A lot of swing thoughts going on there Jim. The only "phantom edge voltage" I'm aware of was on Kokam pouch cells not A123. We have been unable to duplicate the concept on these cells.<br /><br />They have a lot of heat control in the A123 module. We're not seeing any dramatic heat, even under pretty high currents. We're learning to HEAT cells, not cool them.<br /><br />Jack RickardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-47520439310494479952012-02-21T20:13:03.459-06:002012-02-21T20:13:03.459-06:00When I look at the video "GoElectricDrive.com...When I look at the video "GoElectricDrive.com: A123 video presenting prismatic battery pack" on YouTube which Jack has shown in his shows as well, they put "Heatsink Plates" in between each 20Ah Pouch to wick away heat. And I read on this blog about phantom edge voltage on each pouch. And if that's so, then how can they use a metal (presumably Aluminum alloy) heat sink plate that is in contact with both the pouch and the heat sink and each heat sink is in contact with the next? Even if they connect a phantom edge voltage to the ground side of the cell, in theory that does seem self defeating to me electrically. But I find it interesting that they use a metal heatsink on both surfaces of each pouch to wick away heat, at least in this instance. <br /><br />JimJames A. Holifieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180031495189830484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-2519834714150738412012-02-04T12:41:51.912-06:002012-02-04T12:41:51.912-06:00Jack:
Last year, I switched my 5.5hp ICE Honda irr...Jack:<br />Last year, I switched my 5.5hp ICE Honda irrigation pump over to a 3 horse electric pump, bought a Leaf and converted my lawn tractor, that I use to cut 3 acres of pasture grass, to 48volt 100ah Pb electric. I hate the Pb batteries but used them to prove my design. As suggested by you, I priced out the 160ah Li cells...ouch!<br /><br />I read recently about a company that had solved the chemical problems with NiZn batteries and they are making wild claims about their use in micro hybrids (start/stop technology). Lighter, more power, and longer cycling life, etc.<br /><br />If their claims are true, perhaps they will work in an short-range EV as well as my tractor. Hope it isn't just more vapor.<br /><br />http://www.powergenix.com/?q=node/74Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15944796817267841197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-74430613303750967882012-02-03T22:19:41.365-06:002012-02-03T22:19:41.365-06:00Jack, have you had any thoughts about doing a segm...Jack, have you had any thoughts about doing a segment on your Ford Edge? Maybe just a short overview. If it am right on my facts I think you bought this car at some stage of conversion and completed it, that is just what I put together in reading and comments I've heard you mention on a couple of shows. I was just interested in the conversion, what parts were used and how it performs. <br /><br />Daviddbc105https://www.blogger.com/profile/10552998372880546961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-77731733462980530192012-02-03T19:06:34.345-06:002012-02-03T19:06:34.345-06:00Well it sounds as if the gearbox is seized
There w...Well it sounds as if the gearbox is seized<br />There was a lot of this happening a few years ago in Sydney <br />Cars being towed by tow trucks and arriving with seized or blown gearbox's<br />I am pretty sure that there are no tow trucks left in Sydney because of this<br />They are now all flatbeds<br /><br />On a different issue <br />now the model S is here (or soon to be) <br />what is the situation with spare parts<br />Can you ring up Tesla's spare parts department and order a motor and controller??<br />Be nice for an EV conversionNicholashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11673315568807827364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-33557385238611039372012-02-03T03:48:02.541-06:002012-02-03T03:48:02.541-06:00I have not read the promotional piece from GWL. B...I have not read the promotional piece from GWL. But by definition cell shunts certainly DO increase the time any cell spends at max voltage. They basically hold it there bypassing the cell and feeding energy to the remaining cells. They are kept there until the others catch up. <br /><br />We do not use shunts and haven't since some very early experiments with Thundersky cells. They are essentially the hallmark of amateur BMS wannabes that have no clue how these cells work. They are unnecessary and in most cases dangerous.<br /><br />We advocate balancing the cells at the bottom ONCE on installation and slightly undercharging them thereafter. It appears to work on multiple cars, many cells, and many thousands of miles.<br /><br />ALL of our cell complications have derived from our clumsy attempts at cell monitoring or BMSing. They work much better if you leave em alone.<br /><br />Other views are welcome, they just aren't welcome HERE. We're no longer guessing, and are singularly disinterested in finding new ways to burn cars to the ground.<br /><br />Jack RickardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-87499510148469851362012-02-03T03:39:33.642-06:002012-02-03T03:39:33.642-06:00Mike:
We're on the same page Mike. But a goo...Mike:<br /><br />We're on the same page Mike. But a google search doesn't quite cut it. I have a full set of manuals on the beast, but that doesn't necessarily cover it in any definitive fashion either. I don't want a vacuum pump.<br /><br />When I chase down the actual AC Delco part number you referenced in the exploded view, it does NOT appear to be a vacuum valve. It appears to be an electric actuator. That was why I was inquiring. <br /><br />I don't KJNOW at this point if we need vacuum for the environmentals, and you haven't really told me how I could make that determination. You've raised the point, and now leave me hanging.<br /><br />We have never used a vacuum pump on a car yet. I would be disappointed to have to have one on this one but as stated, the priority is for the ac and heat to work. If it also rolls, so be it.<br /><br />Jack RickardJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-56888985278400109392012-02-02T22:14:14.893-06:002012-02-02T22:14:14.893-06:00Jack,
Just that a google search on "escalade...Jack,<br /><br />Just that a google search on "escalade A/C vacuum actuator" leads to some forum entries, ebay offerings, etc. about A/C vacuum actuators for the escalade, including model years at least through 2011. There is apparently both a vacuum and an electric variant, and you may well have the electric actuators. I know in my car (old VW) I had to include the dashboard in my vacuum system to get it all to work right, and wondered if you had eliminated the possiblity of needing ANY vacuum in your car. In my car, what gets actuated deals with defrost and vent, two functions I like to have. I don't own an escalade, and so wouldn't get a complete repair manual for it, but I was curious, and thought you might know or could look it up in your manual, if you have one. I'm interested in eventually getting rid of the noisy vacuum pump, and so I'm following your progress on the complete impact of going vacuum free.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />MikeGoFigurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17776115346834304716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-86278956486532712002012-02-02T22:07:37.411-06:002012-02-02T22:07:37.411-06:00I have used LiFePO4 cells with a shunting BMS. I d...I have used LiFePO4 cells with a shunting BMS. I didn't have any issues with the system but it wasn't doing much of anything either, so I removed it. <br /><br />This self-promotional piece from GWL is bull. Cell shunts do NOT increase the time any cell spends at max voltage. You build your pack with initially top balanced cells if you are using a shunting BMS (if you don't the shunts will slowly push it that way.) The shunts remove more from any cell that hits target voltage early so they are less likely to go there first next time. Over a few cycles the amount of time the shunts are on gets closer to the same. You can make it as short as you want.EVfunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07583226003313385558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-45064935853304138762012-02-02T20:12:28.872-06:002012-02-02T20:12:28.872-06:00This paper strikes me as one more statement of hal...This paper strikes me as one more statement of half-understood and sort-of-right ideas that really doesn't advance the discussion. The authors seem to acknowledge exactly that in their note on Page 6, which sets the tone...<br /><br />Lots of conclusions in that report, with no data or description of the "long term testing" which is the basis for the conclusions. Interesting point about overcharging based on duration, and likely true, but no cogent description of why this is the case, let alone a demonstration of it. <br /><br />I think these guys are feeling a portion of the elephant and more or less accurately describing it. OTOH, they don't seem to have the big picture, and they reach several wrong conclusions as a result. Their "suggested" top balancing scheme in Fig 9 almost gets there, but they brush this impossible multi-cell voltage scheme off on a charger/bms somehow being able to dynamically manage the mythical "relaxed voltage" level. Why don't they just say to drop the CC voltage from 3.65V to 3.55V? That mostly gets where they want to go, with no equipment. <br /><br />I don't think the authors of this paper understand the ultimate implication of their observations and suggestions, particularly where this ~3.98V "full charge voltage" isn't referenced to a charge current level, rendering it a rather meaningless number.<br /><br />I triangulate that opinion with a look at their "6 tips" to happy cells. Tip #1 is to manually top-balance. I think that's clearly about the riskiest way to put a new pack into service, no? Tip #5 seems also to misunderstand CC/CV charging protocol, and suggests that GWL charges to 3.65 or whatever, and shuts off the charger. I hope that implication is just something lost in translation, but I doubt it...Tom Alvaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13138074813335115689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-77928226342122496392012-02-02T20:01:48.870-06:002012-02-02T20:01:48.870-06:00If you review the video where you built the A123 p...If you review the video where you built the A123 pack, I have a sneaky suspicion that you forgot a spacer in your rush to finish the stack. Check the vid, it'll be the segment where you're finishing it off, I think that lost you some conductivity and explains why those specific cells failed.Nickname unavailablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14662217517632847631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-63300674071896167282012-02-02T16:44:48.643-06:002012-02-02T16:44:48.643-06:00Sorry to hear about the woes with the A123 cells J...Sorry to hear about the woes with the A123 cells Jack.<br /><br />I've been inspired to go get a lithium pack for my solar power system after reading about your various sucesses with the Winston cells. I've got 8 of the 400Ah cells winging (well trucking actually) their way to me from the GWL EV Power warehouse in Prague in the Czech Republic. So although you can't get them now in the US from Balcon (or whoever it was you said), you might be able to order them from these guys in the Czech Republic (but the shipping and customs duty might break the deal for you). As I'm importing from within the EU, it isn't a problem for me as there's no duty to pay and the shipping was not to expensive.<br /><br />I've ordered one of the CellLog8 things to use as a low voltage cutoff for my inverter load, as the Cellog8 will monitor each cell and trip an alarm relay output if one cell gets to the LVD cut-off voltage. Hopefully that's all the BMS (as in Battery *Monitoring* System) I'll need - as you've demonstrated that you don't need all that expensive and dangerous active balancing stuff.<br /><br />An interesting thing on the GWL power blog was their new advice that most BMS balancers actually do serious damage to cells by holding the weak ones for too long at the top Voltage (anywhere over 3.65V) and this causes cumulative damage even when supposedly protecting the cell. They recommended it is far better to just short cycle the cells between 10% and 90% charge and not try to get the pack to 100% all the time!<br /><br />http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/tagged/TechReport<br /><br />Your experiments (and also mine with multiple lead acid batteries) also convinced me to go for the more expensive option of 8x 400Ah cells rather than 16x 200Ah cells in series-parallel because it's always more difficult to ensure equal current balancing in parallel cells.Outtasighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02048189191321429295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-23192262858982416622012-02-02T16:26:08.881-06:002012-02-02T16:26:08.881-06:00Two questions came to mind during this show. Has t...Two questions came to mind during this show. Has there been a shift in thinking re safe state of charge--I thought the line was 20%, not the 10% mentioned? I espied what appears to be a scooter/motorcycle in EVTV land: is it a gasser you are converting or a battery electric you are optimizing to get in on some best project in the world* action? <br /><br />* http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/32224_129701923710250_100000113296487_340916_4634978_n.jpgPerin du Buluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07948129381637534826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-18174546202918461892012-02-02T16:20:00.430-06:002012-02-02T16:20:00.430-06:00Hi Jack,
Well I know on my design I'm not goin...Hi Jack,<br />Well I know on my design I'm not going to risk it. I use very thin sheets of fiberglass reinforced plastic between each cell. I'm also not going larger than 60ah groups. If I get a chance I'll try and get you some pics. I also thought you might like a video of the 1967 Cougar I'm doing.Orion 2010https://www.blogger.com/profile/15453827638575754185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-42792771710046091112012-02-02T13:02:22.085-06:002012-02-02T13:02:22.085-06:00Jack:
On the Escalade, I thought you sprung for t...Jack:<br /><br />On the Escalade, I thought you sprung for the HELM factory Service Manual set for the truck. If so, it should have complete vacuum diagrams in there to quickly check everything you are needing vacuum for. Cruise control is the one most people forget, but on such a late model car, I really don't thing there's anything but the brake booster that uses vacuum. The trickier question is what is SENSING vacuum, and why, like the transmission PCM or power steering system. That's another page or two of the HELM manual...<br /><br />IIRC, when I looked into this a little two years ago for you, I'm pretty sure that all the vacuum controls were phased out of the climate control systems in GM trucks somewhere by 2006. I remember being concerned about it, and then discovering that everything on your vintage of Escalade was a solenoid or a motor actuator controlling it. The easy test is whether there's a hiss when moving the blend or heat controls. No hiss; no vacuum power.Tom Alvaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13138074813335115689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-52156928047871212672012-02-02T12:18:30.957-06:002012-02-02T12:18:30.957-06:00Interesting to note that GM went with LG cells, a ...Interesting to note that GM went with LG cells, a Korean company, for their Volt cells. Now we find that both LG and A123 cells are made in Korea and these were the same companies that were under consideration for the Volt contract.<br /><br />Hum!, Where's my tin hat?Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15944796817267841197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-53319835942931313602012-02-02T08:22:42.354-06:002012-02-02T08:22:42.354-06:00Dear Jack,
Thanks for your rapid reply.
Actual...Dear Jack,<br /> <br />Thanks for your rapid reply.<br /> <br />Actually, all the A123 20Ah cells are made in Korea. Because the factory of A123 20Ah in Korea. Those cells with “made in Korea” are the old version. And the picture I send in my last mail is the new version. All of our A123 20Ah prismatic cells are genuine and new.<br /><br />Adam Tang<br /><br />I received this from General Electronic Battery Company in China and we are discussing the origin of the cells. He insists ALL 20Ah cells come from Korea no matter what is printed on them.<br /><br />I thought this sufficiently interesting to share. No concept of if it is true.<br /><br />JackJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-80314097542238528292012-02-02T07:39:36.464-06:002012-02-02T07:39:36.464-06:00I know when you say exothermic event, you're c...I know when you say exothermic event, you're concerned that the cells are damaged in such a way that electrolyte leaks.<br /><br />I know epoxy resin is an insulator, and used as such in electronics.<br /><br />My idiotic idea is to test the insulating property of the resin, after curing, you are using. It's chemisty, who knows what's going on? <br /><br />Padraic McDonnellPadraichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01291206974255668481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-40370445639726739322012-02-02T07:14:55.879-06:002012-02-02T07:14:55.879-06:00Yes that's all correct.
I wish I on worte thi...Yes that's all correct.<br /><br />I wish I on worte this on its own: "maybe it’s the resin. Perhaps, someone (jack preferable) can seal a nylon rod in the same resin, and see if it will carry a small charge (test resistance) while encased in the resin? Maybe a terminal at each end." <br /><br />Is that a plauseable way of testing if it's the resin?Padraichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01291206974255668481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-82718899582034753362012-02-02T06:43:32.753-06:002012-02-02T06:43:32.753-06:00Padraic:
The fundamental issue here is that they ...Padraic:<br /><br />The fundamental issue here is that they were KOKAM cells. No relation to A123 cells at all. Different chemistry. Different price. Different everything. <br /><br />Victor Tikhonov with Metric Mind felt qualified and able to design an entire module with incorporated BMS, but was unaware the pouches were conductive at the edges and when KOKAM refused to honor the warranty since the cells were misused, informed the customer that he couldn't' possibly be held responsible. This was his same line when we had a cracked motor face plate on an MES-DEA 200-250 motor. <br /><br />Alex Smith was the customer in that event. He had invested I think something like $48K in the development of this battery pack. And it came off the truck with evidence of sparking and smoke damage out of the box.<br /><br />Other than also being a pouch cell, the A123 cells share nothing with the Kokams.Jack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6676835811534572362.post-23561492101409268592012-02-02T06:34:54.905-06:002012-02-02T06:34:54.905-06:00DOc:
I'm kind of having the same thought Doc....DOc:<br /><br />I'm kind of having the same thought Doc. <br /><br />The interesting thing about this one was the issue of the voltage drop across the cables carrying the current. When your load is 0.1 ohms, the resistance in the cables can be half the drop. So you have to be careful where you measure.<br /><br />We've talked about this with regards to chargers and charging in the past. Indeed we rejected the Current Ways charger because they could not manage accurate measurement of pack voltage over this issue. <br /><br />The "calibration" issue on the EMW Charger we just reviewed is interesting. But if I get some time, my intention is to modify the code where this charger charges for 3 seconds, shuts down for 25 ms, measures the voltage with no current, and then resumes charging - hopefully I can derive a function this way to take cable drop out of the equation.<br /><br />JackJack Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15936311474215791697noreply@blogger.com